[monKa]

Hello, me again, would like to thank you for your great work yet again!

Let's start from the beginning, we need a wipe already and that's the reasons:

Economy - look, this thing is broken atm, because of starting 3m and jump pots. So, let's say that I need to buy a thing for 20m, I can farm colhen in flames and get around 70k/run or just create a new character, send 3m, take stuff from his boxes, merc potions, buy some things in ap shop and repeat this process 7 times to make more profit.

Progression - 2nd thing, in the last patch we get a free weapon for hagie and delia, but those weapons can be enhanced and enchanted, so other characters stays in disadvantage. For example, to craft some weapon on other characters, I should kill the boss first and then pray for some drop.

Fun - we want to have fun in game and 0 aspd and raw stats are not the way of this.

So, I would like to see a server with aim on players and their suggestions.

I want to make out an example of a Awekened server. Their way is good in some cases. They offer a new content, free stuff from level 90 for player to enjoy gameplay, a lot of stuff in shops, no limits for raids, so as a solo player you are free to spam shit out of some bosses, same for party play and still economy is fine. Thats fun, realy good job by them, but after that their refine system is totally unfriendly, enchant system is so-so, and coin trains are just too long, their system is totally unfriendly for a newcomer, because people live in different regions and with a small playerbase sometimes you just can't get a party to complete your daily tasks.

So again, I'll try to suggest some things again and would be glad if people give their opinion on that.

MAIN THINGS:
 
1. Remove raids limit, let us be free to do what we want and what we enjoy the most, kill monsters and big ass bosses, that doesn't kill economy at all, 3 starting millions are!
2. Give us starting point, 18-19k atk, ~80 bal, ~30 spd, 90 crit. That will allow player enjoy their character and be able to farm most of the content. Or just set of lvl 70-80 items, that we can enhance and enchant, still need to farm those stones and scrolls. At the moment it is even hard to kill a stoneskin trash mob . (I just get armageddon weapon and fomorian book from the 85 box, it's nice actually, good way to begin with.)
3. Realy, adjust prices in shops. As i said above, Awekened prices are legit, gold income - not. Let's say it again, Muir gives around 100k and Colhen in flames around 70k. To buy  a dye ampoule for 2m and spend an hour to choose a color and fail with rng I need to complete 20 Muirs(which are limited btw) or 30 CiF. And I am not talking about fusion runes for 20m and storage coupon for 70m.
4. With prices give people a fair gold income. Raise gold rates so we can spend a free time to make some, because with low playerbase market is not the thing. BTW Marketplace doesn't return items at all, please fix
5. I like XE stuff, but it is bugged and Premier client is better for future updates. Awekened have some updated skills, and in our client some skills are missing at all.
6. As a guy who want a sandbox said, make it less RNG to enchant items. But I do not want it to be free, just let us buy 100% enchant rune for some money, let's say it will cost a 10 runs of s3 raids with the server gold rates. But still solo players can obtain it by farming some dungeons and be able to achieve this goal.

Thats the main things, that will allow players to stay in game. Some other things I will add in my suggestion list.
I would like to hear other people opinion, because I think that it is a mainly players desicion to make a great server together and stick with it. And I am sure that we'll be able to support the server with donations to help owner and thus express our gratitude to you.

[Bozar]

Nope. Making wipe after release its not good idea. Better just delate 3m for a start.

[Windy]

I wouldn not suggest wipe, but gold issue is #1 question to be solved.

Actually for now waiting until all is pretty much set to start finally properly playing. Because i don`t really want to get everything deleted, or changed in bags, capsules etc. and put useless efforts now, while server is still "under construction"

[braidtassel]

Already said this in the discord, but monka made an excellent point in that this game shouldn't have an economy. This is a private server, not a main server. We're just here to do the things we wanted to do that we couldn't do in the main server, and that involves getting stuff we couldn't get. The owner should let us be able to get the gear we exactly want after a certain amount of effort. By that, I mean there should be NO rng whatsoever, as in we get the guaranteed weapon enhance/enchant/gear trade after a certain amount of grinding. In other words, just let us trade coins for +11 Guarnateed Rune or like a 100% Premium Enchant Rune. I figure this should be easier since those items already exist in the game and the owner just needs to implement them at a cost. So if anything, he's going the right direction in reducing RNG, but there are still many aspects, especially weapon enhancing, that needs a drastic reduce in RNG.

Finally, this server currently has too few people and in the future will as well, which is good (if it gets too large, expect a C&D from Nexon). So we should just keep the community we have with the people we have to play whenever we want. Don't expect to get full raids so we shouldn't even need to grind raids anything remotely close to what the main server expects.

One last request I have is that besides fixing Enchaning/Enchanting, we should get a system for Infusion. I hope in some way we can just get the guaranteed infusion we want rather than spending 999999 infusion stones to get a chance at +2 CRT

[Keke]

There are a lot of points that monKa makes that are relevant. The 3m starting gold and items were definitely an unforeseen consequence of the Jump! Potion. Yes, things may have gotten a bit out of hand depending on how many and how often it was abused, but in the long term, this is not a huge deal. Why? Because of the idea of gear progression. Like you mentioned, the fun and endgame starts for Vindictus at around 18k attack, 80 balance, and 90 crit. 18k Attack can be achieved through a +10 lv80 enchanted weapon, along with armor enchanted with offensive stats. 90 crit is a bit harder to achieve, though should be obtainable with a decent amount of effort. The suggestion to baseline the stats at this point is a valid suggestion, but you have to keep in mind the current state of the server. This is an one week old server, not a server that has been operating for a long time. Yes, I understand this is a private server, but that does not mean everything is given out as freebies.

I understand that many of you may have played on Awakened and are simply looking for a replacement, but since I have not personally played Awakened or know of it at all, I can not make any points regarding about how the two server differs. Judging from what I have read about testimonies of Awakened, it seems to be that gear progression is a problem because of "some reasons". Aside from braidtassel who has simply been asking for a complete freebies server, most suggestions made on forums are reasonable because there has to be some degree of work to be done.

Let's look at why servers can't be completely freebies. A server costs money to host, including a domain and the actual server itself. A freebies server will simply not last; as great as a freebies server sounds, I don't believe the owner has the money to just support the server out of his or her own pocket. Where is the incentive for people to donate in a freebies server? Sure, a donation is an act of gratitude, but there are only so many gracious people out there that are willing to donate just because they want to help support something. Incentives are given so that some people are more inclined to spend a bit of money to help out with server costs. As much as the owner wants to help out the players, you guys simply do not see the balance that has to be had between making things easier, and spoonfeeding everything. An economy is needed because it gives those who donate an edge. Call it pay2win, but nothing is free in this world.

This directly leads into the idea of gear progression. As stated earlier, a server can not run if no one is willing to support it. There has to be a fair balance of free to play, and pay2win. For starters, this is a new server and it needs players, and some of the "gatekeeping" elements of gear may really deter people from wanting to stay on the server. Though it may be tempting to simply spoil everyone so that more players join, there has to be player retention and something to work towards. From what I have gathered, people will not stay if they can not get their perfect +15s. Currently, the enhancement progression is as follows: 1-10 is basically the baseline guarantee, there is no reason that you guys should be complaining given out plentiful enhancement runes can be. Sure, it might have been a result of a consequence, but it was made available. Perhaps a fix could be to include a few extra runes are allotted to new characters; definitely enough to get to +10. From there, +12 can be guaranteed with enough play time. +13 and on, there are special runes in the donor shop that protect from destruction, but resets the enhancement level by 1. Essentially, in a two enhancement attempt with two runes, you have a 11% chance to enhance successfully twice, 44% chance to break even, and a 44% chance to double downgrade. This is assuming you decide to go through with both runes. Assuming you stop on initial success, and only double enhance on failure, the math works out to 33% for success, 22% for break even, and 44% for double downgrade. The system of punishing RNG is present, yes, but with a +12 as a baseline, a +15 is not actually all that rare with this system. Looking at the balance of F2P and P2W, donor coins are able to be traded and sold on the marketplace. Yes, the current economy is fucked, given that the gold rates and starting gold and everything is not optimized. Yes I agree that there are some changes that has to be made. But please, the owner probably has a life too and rather than hounding him or her about the same issues, simply let things play out a bit and give feedback on what's working and what's not.

Similarly, the enchant system is currently at too high of a premium. I agree, the runes are too expensive given the gold people are able to get. This basically spells the same situation as the main server where people are too afraid to enchant, because of the fear of blowing up gear. In addition, people are afraid to enchant, because they are afraid that they will lose their time spent farming a scroll. These are all understandable issues, and further testing will be done on how to best solve this without simply spoonfeeding it to the players.

As a player just like you guys, who had the advantage of having about a weeks worth of extra play time, you will see how rewarding the server is if you simply aim small. I had to solo S2 content with the free expedition gear a week before the server launched to farm for my Arma weapon, aside for the orbs. +15s are not needed to enjoy the game; there is almost no point in this game when everyone has a +15 weapon, because the bosses get cheesed in under 5 minutes.

This has been a long post, but hopefully, it clears up some questions about gear progressions.
There are definitely a lot of things that still have to be improved on, but please bear with it, I'm sure the owner is doing his or her best in the time that he or she has. I play both the main server and this, and honestly, while Nexon is great at giving out freebies, their pacing with gear is horrible. It's a quick rise to bare minimum for end game, into a huge stagnant. The goal of the server is to have steady progression. The rate at which you progress to getting to the "bare minimum of end game", will be similar to the rate at which you progress to the perfect gear you all so want :3

I'd say everything thus far has been a good step in the right direction, so l definitely appreciate what the owner has done.

I personally do not like the XE system at all, but if that is what we have to work with for now, then so be it. Perhaps the owner will find a solution to this, we don't know.

tl;dr: there has to be a balance between donors and free to plays, otherwise the server won't last. To do so, the current enhancement system relies on mutual dependence.

[Jrite]

I'm sorry that what I'm about to say is going to sound offensive but I really can't put it in another way.

You people seem to have a flawed idea on what the game "Vindictus" is. First of all every single thing in this game is RNG based. Enchanting is RNG, Enhancing is RNG, monster drops are RNG, etc. The whole goal of the game is to clear dungeons, kill bosses and look good while doing it. In clearing these dungeons, you gain exp,gold,ap, items. If you just got every item as proposed, is there still a game to play?

Lets say we're given +15s and lvl 90 boost at the start of the game, what is there left to do? Do I pointlessly clear dungeons and bosses that I have no need to or do I just sit in town and talk to people. If I had maxed out weapon and armor 99.99% of the game would already be over, why don't I just go play a different game? Besides, if you completely remove the core aspects from the game, is it still "Vindictus" or just some [cool people with weapons simulator] TM

Now that that's over, we can talk about the suggestions.

1)
Economy -
You say that the economy is broken because of 3m on creating a new character. Now lets think about this, "If there was no economy to begin with, can it be broken?". Lets say there was an economy, what would you buy with 3m? 30m? 300m? From what I can see the only things that currently have value is your gear (which you currently cannot buy from any other player). If I currently had 300m, it would basically be the same as me having 5m. Gold has no value in a world where gold cannot buy anything of value. Basic economics.

However, if you had created 20 additional characters for 3m each, I commend you, you deserve all that gold, I'm serious.

2)
Progression -
"Free weapon for hagie and delia"  --> Although these 2 classes did indeed get new weapons so did all the other classes. Everyone got an armageddon weapon in their lvl 85 box. Keep in mind this was given out twice, once from character reaching level 85 and a second time yesterday for the people who had already used it.
Also, its really not hard to get it from +0 to +10,

3)
Fun -
Vindictus is a game about grinding and trying your luck at every corner. You risk all that you have just to get minimal increases in stats. That's just the way it is, its a core aspect of the game. If you think strength and fun go hand in hand, Vindictus is not the game for you. Strength is imaginary, you could have 100k attack but still die to the easiest boss.

When I started the game, I had 0 stats, now I'm level 90, how do you think I got there. I played like a normal player albeit with highly boosted rates. It took me less than a week compared to months of grinding on the main server.

Besides, the idea of Fun is subjective. I might fight grinding fun, you might not. People play grindy games to grind. That's why games like Vindictus, BDO, etc. are still alive today.


4) Here is where I talk about the "Main Points"



1 - Remove Raid Limit - Terrible Idea -
Imagine if I ran Muir 20 times a day, I would literally be rolling in the paradise stones. This would actually be the economy killer if there ever was or will be one.

2 - Give us Free gear - Eh -
You already have a level 80 weapon, the best level 80 weapon at that. Most characters go for the black pearl set at level 80. This generally requires the player to fight Lak or Kraken a bunch of times. Its really not hard, it doesn't even require that many of the rare drops and you can also buy them with seals. You need a total of 10 kraken fangs, 150 seals, 7 days of farming at your unluckiest. Lets say youre lazy and you do the bare minimum, 15 seals a day, 5 Succubus, 5 Muir, 5 Shining Shakarr, all of them are solo raids which shouldn't be too hard. It will take you at most 10 days to get all the kraken fangs.

3 - Adjust Prices - Here's an actual good one
I agree, prices are high, this is easily changeable. But I actually like playing with dye ampoules, I buy the AP ones all the time.

4 - Increase Gold Income - I guess?
As I said before, there's no point in having a ton of gold. Gold has no value unless given value. What do you plan on buying with all the gold that you're making?
Dye ampoules? --> I thought you hated the idea of sitting for an hour and RNGing to your color. (I love playing with ampoules btw)
Enhance Runes? --> But I thought we all were given a free +15 already, why do i need this?
Enchant Runes? --? Yea sure I need these but do i need 50 of them? Probably not.
Pets? --> Well you can only have 1 out at a time, not that big of a deal.

5 - XE stuff - No issue
I've had no issue with XE skills or jumping etc. No point in fixing what isn't broken. If XE stuff is bugged in the real game, private servers have no way to fix that, this is a private server not a brand new game. This also runs on the EU client so there's no way to remove it anyway. If you have issues with jumping, unbind the key, if you have issues with your XE skill, don't use it. It's not like 1 less skill is going to completely throw off your gaming experience.

6 - Sandbox mode - Yeah sorry bro, Fuck this idea
Yea no, as I stated before, is a sandbox game still Vindictus or just [Cool People with weapons simulator]
However, I do support the idea of making enchant runes available and affordable

Thanks for reading and don't take the commentary too hard.

Edit : Just a thought, the server has officially been alive for ~1 week. How perfect do you expect it to be? There will be mistakes and there will be unforeseen circumstances. But as players, all we can do is hope for the better not force the provider to bend to our wills. I've played a myriad of games spanning many different genres. Who doesn't want to be instantly OP? Who doesn't want to be the best without trying? Probably no one, but to be able to do all those things defeats the whole purpose of the idea of a "Game". If there's no goal, why play?

Edit2 : Another thought, someone said that players come from the main game to private servers to achieve something they couldn't before. If everything was served to you on a silver platter, did you actually achieve anything? After you've reached the point you had intended to reach, would you continue to play? These are important questions that need answers. If the answer was "No" to either of these questions, then that means sandbox was NOT the correct direction to go.

[monKa]

Thank you guys for all your opinions, I am sure we'll be moving in the right direction.

[Tea]

First let me just make clear that there will not be a wipe — there just isn't any real reason for one.

Thank you for your feedback regarding shop prices.
Most shop prices have already been tuned down, but we realize that a few of them may still need a little adjusting.

I am personally opposed to removing the raid limit, but also because your argument for it is nonexistent.
Just because you juxtaposed it with the 3m starting gold problem doesn't make the two topics related.

A "starting point" as you call it is already quite simple to obtain, especially after the 8/2 patch which updated the AP shop significantly.
You get all the baseline stats you really need by just enhancing your free Lv. 80 weapon to +10, (maybe) enchanting it, and buying the NX gear from the AP shop.

Regarding XE mode bugs ... if you notice bugs, then report them.
If you never report a bug, we'll never be able to fix it because we won't know about it.

[monKa]

I'll just leave it here for you to think about random things.
My opinion is based on people's suggestions from official forum, reddit and what I heard and experienced on awakened server. First of all, Vindictus is not popular nowadays, so main player base are veteran players, who already tired of RNG and just want to be rewarded for efforts they put. With small player base solo players should be rewarded as well, and progression should take some time for sure.
If I was setting the server main goals for me would be:
Give all players freedom to choose w/e they want to do or farm. Awakened achieved it with their system pretty wisely, they gave players an item set to be able to farm w/e they enjoy and removed those limits on mission. This allow people to choose what they wanna do, just enjoy an old content with some efforts or farm towards progression. But progression there is slow and boring. With low online they force people to farm raids every day for missions that give a coins rewards. For coins you are able to buy ES's, Accessories, Runes and other things. That`s a good point, if people from different time zones can cooperate s and someone can host a 8 man raid. They call it train, when bunch of people starting their daily missions. But worst part starts after a while. To progress you forced to farm 1 dungeon and other content is worthless. Story with their enhancement system is, you are free to enhance item to +7 without penalties, but after that point enhance rates getting so low. Like 5% for 13-14 and 1% to 14-15. So the main point of gameplay is to start farming paradise stones over and over. Duo players or solo, which are the core of Vindictus nowadays won't farm bce for ages at this point, even 10 or 20 runs of Muir is getting boring, but that`s the only way for solo player to get paradise stones. Many players are against this statement and starting for searching something else. Wow, that`s not my opinion about the server, just information, that I found all around forums. Real suggestions starting now
1. Personally I would like to give people cool equip, if they are ready to put efforts for that. Weapon breaking is not acceptable for a private server in my opinion. Let's say now starting point for weapon is +10, so rates for that are: 0-5 100%, 5-7 80% with a chance to lower enhance by 1, 7-10 60% with a chance to lower enhance by 1. From 10 weapon is starting to resets to 0 with chances 10-11 50%, 11-13 40% and 13-14 30% and 14-15 40%. People still need to farm a lot of stones and elixirs to achieve that goal, but they are working on it with less RNG involved and it can be achieved by time spent on farming.
2. Enchant system should be fixed as well: add Elixirs in Brynn shop for some price and let people just focus on farming scrolls, not materials. Regular enchant rune can be priced with 5m, because it's still a chance to succeed or fail. And Exquisite Enchant Rune can be priced around 15-20m, depends on gold income to reward people who farming raw gold by doing same missions over and over. Don't forget, we have around 10 items to enchant, so it will take time for sure, but same actions will get boring, that`s about the price.
3. Stop focusing on economy on private server, it doesn't work with low populations. Maximum what people would trade are ES, enhanced equip, mats for lvl 90 equip and enhance related materials. Other things are useless.
4. Vindictus all about styling on them. Fusions should be more obtainable.
5. Daily missions are forcing to create toons, because it has more profit rather than doing it for 15 days with main character for rune, let's say.
6. Raw gold income for solo/duo players with low-spec pc or different time zone. These players still want to be able and achieve something, but for that he should run CiF infinite times to just get those money.
7. Stats infusion not a main priority, but should be available too.

That's just a personal opinion, maybe will be useful.

[braidtassel]

Lol everyone thinks they're right. Just the let the owner do what he wants and if you don't like it leave. No matter how much feedback or shit we write against each other like those above they will never follow that exact vision and just cause everyone to leave. "I've been palying Vindictus 10 years im a game master expert" "do u seriously not know what gear progression is oh my god ur an idiot let me explain to u how it works and why we need it no matter what" What a joke.